Curse

MithranArkanere · Jan 14, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedeadlyassassin

Dunes of Despair.

Ah... the problem here is that you have to face level 20 enemies with level 17 henchmen in parties of 6, in Timed Missions.

Without the timers, they would become quite easy.

Parties of 8 and level 20 henchmen should start from Amnoon Oasis.

the_jos · Jan 14, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystical nessAL

If someone has hard times doing something, HE should be the one to change, not the world change for him. Improve yourself, learn your mistakes and counters, dont just cry to anet that you arent bothered in been focused on the game.

I think your comment is too harsh, Myst.
For some people, normal mode is hard. Because they don't know external resources or just play the game 'roleplaying' and not fully using the character's skills to maximum effect.
For example, take Brutus in our guild.
He has enabled Hard Mode for some time now, but he played W/R most of the time. With a bow and a pet.
It will get you through prophecies, perhaps with some help on certain missions.
Yesterday I cought him using FGJ without having adrenaline skills on his bar.
Meaning I'm probably going to take him to battle island to have him experiment with some skills.

Since he does not play as often as we do and most certainly does not use wiki or community sites, he will never learn fast unless someone tells him how to play a warrior right. Or build a ranger if he wants to play with a bow and pet.
From someone that uses community sites and wiki often this is/should be common knowledge, but for others around it's not.

I do understand that some people struggle and just saying 'learn to play' is not going to work.
From their perspective, the game is too hard and they don't know why.
When no-one tells them, they will not learn.
Implementing some 'Sandbox mode' could help those players learning to play.
Because the information they have to absorb in the battle is just too much.
It's hard to focus on what's happening around you when you get beaten up.
Most people only think: 'need to stay alive'.

It's with a lot of things.
I've seen players kite towards me when I was playing bonder.
Players with a build that consumes too much energy. Or one that could work, but only when they don't spam their heavy energy/exhausting skills.
Players spreading attribute points all over. Or using the wrong weapon sets.
Recent example from a dungeon by someone: "Wtf earth scroll?". Ofc they player did not get the hint, so we pointed that with his set he did not get full energy benefit when playing fire ele.

It's only when people explain others what can be improved in understandable language that they will become better players.

mystical nessAL · Jan 14, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

I think your comment is too harsh, Myst.
For some people, normal mode is hard. Because they don't know external resources or just play the game 'roleplaying' and not fully using the character's skills to maximum effect.
For example, take Brutus in our guild.
He has enabled Hard Mode for some time now, but he played W/R most of the time. With a bow and a pet.
It will get you through prophecies, perhaps with some help on certain missions.
Yesterday I cought him using FGJ without having adrenaline skills on his bar.
Meaning I'm probably going to take him to battle island to have him experiment with some skills.

Since he does not play as often as we do and most certainly does not use wiki or community sites, he will never learn fast unless someone tells him how to play a warrior right. Or build a ranger if he wants to play with a bow and pet.
From someone that uses community sites and wiki often this is/should be common knowledge, but for others around it's not.

I do understand that some people struggle and just saying 'learn to play' is not going to work.
From their perspective, the game is too hard and they don't know why.
When no-one tells them, they will not learn.
Implementing some 'Sandbox mode' could help those players learning to play.
Because the information they have to absorb in the battle is just too much.
It's hard to focus on what's happening around you when you get beaten up.
Most people only think: 'need to stay alive'.

It's with a lot of things.
I've seen players kite towards me when I was playing bonder.
Players with a build that consumes too much energy. Or one that could work, but only when they don't spam their heavy energy/exhausting skills.
Players spreading attribute points all over. Or using the wrong weapon sets.
Recent example from a dungeon by someone: "Wtf earth scroll?". Ofc they player did not get the hint, so we pointed that with his set he did not get full energy benefit when playing fire ele.

It's only when people explain others what can be improved in understandable language that they will become better players.

I guess it's abit too harsh, but I never liked those "too hard " attitude. The only fun in this game is the challanging. However on brutus's case, he hasnt complained about the game been too hard, he has played it and enjoyed it, eventought he isnt playing effectively.
From what I got with reading Scarlet's comments is that she rushed the game. You will have to prepare yourself for higher challanges, as you may see anet cant really make NM easier.
:P

Amy Awien · Jan 14, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

From what I read she assumed that EotN was the follow-up to Prophecies and thus it would make sense to play EotN after Prophecies.

GW just wasn't designed to support different difficulty levels.

The only general advice I can give is to ask here - or on other forums - if you're stuck on a mission or quest.

Kanyatta · Jan 14, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

For example, take Brutus in our guild.

Since he does not play as often as we do and most certainly does not use wiki or community sites, he will never learn fast unless someone tells him how to play a warrior right.

But, if someone is on guru posting about this, they obviously use community sites, and probably play Guild Wars fairly regularly

Although I realize that is not a majority of the community, if you want to be successful at the game, you probably have to play it a little bit. Fatal1ty didn't learn how to be the best FPSer ever overnight.

MMOs have never been known to be "pick up and play" like other games. Ultima Online, EQ, D&D, Diablo, and many others have been known for the player base that really dedicates themselves to the games and gets good. I realize Guild Wars is kind of a breed all its own, but it still falls under the "MMO" category, which has traditionally been games that are difficult to jump into and be good.

But, the community shouldn't have something forced on them because a small percentage of players don't want to get better. I realize we were all at a point one time in our GW careers, where we ran R/Mos with Power Shot and W/Mos with Mending, and such, but most of us that stuck with it got past those phases. Just because someone doesn't want to adapt, they shouldn't be given a free ride.

Ama Seraphim · Jan 14, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I don't think she or her husband are looking for a free ride, I think they are just stating what they think would improve their game play and others like them. Unless people play constantly and have learned to adapt or where shown the error of their ways does not mean they are demanding/expecting any special rights in the game. They are CASUAL players, meaning they get on to have fun, if I was in their shoes I wouldn't want to purchase a game that I expected to have fun and kill a little time, only to not be able to complete some areas because the 'difficulty' level. The people that are posting negatively need to take a step back and realize that not everyone can play a game and immediately adapt. Some players need longer to adjust and she already mentioned that she is guildless so the help (ie, information, strategy, skills ideas) isn't that readily available to a guild member unless someone is willing to take a random person and offer help.
This is a community, and sorry but as of late the leetness of some players makes the newer/casual play players shy away from asking help. Prime example look at some of the posts in this thread. I applaud those that have offered advice/help to Scarlet and her husband, but for those that are blunt and rude need a reality check. IT IS A GAME, get over yourself and play the game as a community and not about you. (flame me if you want, but damn it be nice to ppl when they are directed here by ANET.)

Skyy High · Jan 14, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

"Sandbox" mode, as you say, won't help anyone improve. It'll just lead to people continuing to use crappy builds and tactics, but instead of being occasionally challenged by NM, they'll just assume that they must be doing something correctly, because they're getting through on the easy mode. And then when they try NM, they get destroyed, and then we have an entire new batch of PUG-ers who are even more horrible than the current batch....it simply cannot be beneficial to anyone involved. NM is easy as heck if you play the game with a modicum of sense (and even that is optional in many areas). Making an easier option does a great disservice to both the players who are struggling, and everyone else in the community who may eventually party up with one of the "easy mode" players inadvertently.

the_jos · Jan 14, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

But, if someone is on guru posting about this, they obviously use community sites, and probably play Guild Wars fairly regularly

Play GW regulary? Probably. Post on guru? When A-net support says to do such a thing, they will learn about such sites.

When I started playing the game, one of the first things I did was looking for information on the internet.
However, when others have difficulty, they contact the supplier. And the supplier points them to community sites.
"I simply put this here as instructed by a GW support agent." post #5

Normal mode being hard is also not a very uncommon complaint, people do struggle on normal mode.
There are/were some parts of the game that were notorious for this.
I still hear people that hate THK or Hell's. Same for some Canthan missions (Gyala, Eternal, Palace). Not to speak about the comments on the Realm of Tornment.
Then A-net introduced EotN with dual-profession foes that hit hard.

So, since A-net pointed Scarlet here, it's up to the community to 'decide' if such a change could add value to lesser experienced players.
If that's not the case, A-net support should not point people with these kinds of surgestions here, but just say no (hope I see this right, Gaile).

And I do see value, as long as it ensures that a player can 'try' the mission on easier mode but still has to finish on normal mode to progress.
It would give them the oppurtunity to look at situations without the risk of being killed instantly by the first group of foes.
No drops, no xp, no gain except viewing the mission area and the foes.
Tune down the foes and remove DP so players can see if a team build is working. Tune down player weapons/skills to 2/3 damage.
Put in a large red warning text "This is easy mode, foes will hit twice as hard in normal mode!".

The thing I would not surgest is this as a way of progressing through the game. Normal mode is the way to progress and is doable as far as the story lines are concerned.
The only exception might be the true 'solo' players with H&H, that have a hard time at HoS and missions/quests like those.
A sandbox should be enough for players to tell if their approach has a fair chance of success or is just doomed.

However, one thing I'm not certain about is to include dungeons or not.
It might be a good way to experiment with certain less common team builds.
Or to see if a certain build is up to the final boss
For example, it sucks getting at Fendi only to find out the team can never beat him.
On the other hand, that's the risk on entering a dungeon.
You never know what lives beneath the earth.
So while I see value on the missions and perhaps harder main quests, I keep mixed feelings about dungeons.

mrmango · Jan 14, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Keep failing, smart people see how to not fail the right ways, and they do so. Then the fail goes away. Repeat as needed.

Skyy High · Jan 15, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

So, since A-net pointed Scarlet here, it's up to the community to 'decide' if such a change could add value to lesser experienced players.
If that's not the case, A-net support should not point people with these kinds of surgestions here, but just say no (hope I see this right, Gaile).

Honestly, she probably wasn't pointed here by a person; every ticket opened sends back an automated message, including, "please post any ideas on community fansites".

And, by the by, ANet has incorporated the /wiki and /help commands into the game for a reason. Ignorance of outside sources should not be anyone's excuse; if you're in an outpost for a mission, you type /help and click on the mission name. Trouble on a quest, type /help; all your logbook's contents are displayed. It's all there, all easily accessible.

I'm confused how a sandbox easy mode could ever be useful to anyone as a, "will this build work," tool. Make it easy enough, and EVERYTHING will work; how will you know when you transfer from easy to normal mode that your build will still work?

Amy Awien · Jan 15, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

... No drops, no xp, no gain except viewing the mission area and the foes. Tune down the foes and remove DP so players can see if a team build is working. Tune down player weapons/skills to 2/3 damage.

As a sort of blessing:

You and your party are under the effect of Vision Quest. While Vision Quest is active you can not progress through quests or complete missions, your party receives no xp and no treasures, but all party-members and allies take 50% less damage from foes, deal 50% more damage to foes, are healed for 25% more, enchantments cast on them last 20% longer and hexes and conditions expire twice as fast.

Witchblade · Jan 15, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

instead of playing with that blessing, just watch an ingame video on Youtube ^^
(not very different imo)

Angelica · Jan 15, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I found the game a bit too hard when I started to play for the first time!
Now after more than two years and lots of practice I find it ok.

I wouldn't mind having three choice as per: Easy Mode - Normal mode - Hard mode.

After all we have had the H/M add not long ago, so why not an easy mode too?

/Angelica

Mineria · Jan 15, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

As long as new players can get protector of Tyria with henchmen only, and not even much trouble, I don't see why there should be an easy mode at all.

The thing that really makes a difference, is if you have been reading a guide or not.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Category:Guides

mrvrod · Jan 15, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

Maybe you guys will see something that throws up a red flag.

Human 1 - Ranger / Monk
* Gwen - set as a Mesmer / monk with 1 healing spell and 1 res spell.
* Jora -set as a warrior /monk

First suggestion I would make is to get rid of the healing & res spells for Gwen, probably even change secondary unless your goal is to create a resmer(can be referenced on wiki if you want to find out more about that build). I'd consider Mesmer/Elementalist for the ele glyphs

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

Human 2 - (varies, but normally Elementist / Monk ~or~ Elementist/ Necromancer
* Ogden - Monk

I played an Ele/Necro when I first started thinking it would be an interesting meld, I never really liked it or found any good skill combo that worked for me. I would suggest Ele/Mesmer especially if you want to be a heavy nuker (massive fire dmg) Skills like elememtal attunement and fire attunement, some heavy dmg fire spells like Searing Flames and Mark of Rodgort, and mesmer's arcane echo to repeat that favorite fire spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

Human 3 (me) - Elementist / Monk - heavy fire spells, P. healing & 1 res
*Vekk - Elementist/ Monk - heavy on fire, set up much like me
*Ogden - normally monk / ele with most of his skills being party healers.

Again with the ele I'd go with the E/Me build, get rid of monk skills on back line dmg dealers for PvE. In PvP dressing up your true monk is a good idea, in PvE let your monks do the monk work.

I hope you find this helpful, and with many posters here, feel free to pm me in-game if you have anything I can help you with. I'm 41, I have a disability (back injury), and have been slow on the uptake with this game (just ask my boys

). Trust me, people are telling you the truth, with just some minor tweaks, you will see MAJOR improvements.

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 15, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Support probably pointed her here with the anticipation that many die hard GW'ers will view this as a blasphemy and flame the hell out of her thus ending the petition "due to lack of popular support". Its like the Pope preaching in Mecca.

Not all players have alot of free time on their hands to read community sites, wikis..etc. For some working people, they need to go to work, do grocery, house cleaning, cooking, schooling children...etc. and in the evening they look forward to an hour or 2 of quality family time to unwind and relax. GW could be an option to do that, or NOT.

GW became "easy" only after countless trials and errors and eventually finding the easy way to do things. For instance for someone who doesnt know that Gayla Hatchery mission can be done in a way that renders hero/henching it for master reward not difficult at all [by running first ahead and clearing patrols and then doubling back to escort the turtles] finishing this mission can be extremely difficult with heroes and henchmen. Imagine when this was attempted with only henchmen back in the days of Factions AND without the aforementioned knowledge.
Some areas in GW are challenging even in NM if attempted with H/H. The various "explorer's League" sub-forums have countless threads to this effect. A good example would be the Catacombs of Kathandrax. Where it seems normal mode can be even harsher than HM.

My conclusion is this: Anet will very doubtfully introduce any major changes into this game now that their efforts are mainly directed at GW2.
GW is a game that requires significant investment of time to learn and perfect your approach. Monsters use probably the best AI in any game out there, using the same skills we do - and some better than we do. For those who like an easy game to sail through without a learning curve, GW may not be the best game out there.

Kanyatta · Jan 15, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Anyone else feel we should let this thread fall to the bowels of what is the Guru ocean of bad threads?

pamelf · Jan 15, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

no I don't agree Kanyatta, but perhaps the thread itself should be re-opened elsewhere with Scarlet asking the community what she can do to improve her game, and make the most of her builds.

Just a side note to help out...when you're in an outpost or waiting to enter a mission, or have some active quests, just hit f10 and it will give you wiki links to the most important things you have active at the time. You can then look it up immediately without having to spend hours on the wiki looking for the place you're at.

I hope that helped.

Coloneh · Jan 15, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

I do understand this. a challange is good, but it gets to a point where beating on a mob for 10 minutes just isnt any fun. some of the later game things could use a dificulty decrease.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 15, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

We don't need an easier difficulty, all we need is a removal of the hero cap.